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if someone reports they've been raped....but they would be victimizer denies it saying it was consensual and or he never had sex with her period and there were no witnesses how can authorities find out what happend?In cases of rape how do they determine if the victim is lying or not?
After all the statements have been taken.They are sent to the DPP(The Department Of Public Prosecutions). They then look at the statements and evidence. They make a decision on what they have to see if it will go to court.

If it goes to court the victim has the DPP to represent them. The accused has there own solicitor. It is normally held in a closed court(this means no jury just a judge a police officer somebody who is taking the notes.the victim the a member of the DPP the accused there solicitor and anybody who has made statements.)

Then the Judge will decide on what will happen.

It's just one persons word against the the others.I was raped and in the middle of this process at the moment. And I realize a lot of people make false statements and I think that's disgusting. It makes it a lot harder on the real victims and the people who are prosacuting them.In cases of rape how do they determine if the victim is lying or not?
Best thing is to write down on a piece of paper before having sex that you both agree to have sex and date it and sign it!!! Ha ha ha. I'm afraid some day we'll go to this length. In the meanwhile if a woman looks injured when she gets examined by a doctor this is evidence of struggle. If there are no signs of struggle or injury and she is calm then who would believe her? In case of rape there must be struggle and it will be obvious if the victim is still alive. Also there can be DNA testing to identify the fluids in the victim's vagina. This can really incriminate the perpetrator.
On the issue of consent, yes we face the all too difficult position of he said she said. However as is often the case the victim is heavily intoxicated, in law they are unable to form the requisite capacity to consent and thus anything that the offender does to her is rape.

In so far as determining if something did in fact happen then we are forced to rely of forensic evidence and the medical examination of the victim. This is also fraught with issues in that the victim often feels that they're being raped again by the examining doctor.

Far too many rapes go unreported for a whole variety of reason.... shane, fear of retribution, shock, self loathing etc. Sadly far to many non rapes also get reported and this makes it difficult for police investigators to determine what is real and what is not. Police will balance the version provided by the complainant against the evidence to hand ... its all we have when working out the truth of the matter.

In my 10 years of experience I have investigated and assisted in the investigation of many rapes ..... far too many have in fact come down to what is politely described as 'post coital remorse' or ';what happens when my partner finds out?'; and the rape complaint is seen as the only way out.

I can say that all matters are treated as real and as rapes until proved otherwise and all are referred onto sexual assault services and counseling.

If anyone reading this is in the position of being the victim of an unreported rape, any police officer worthy of their badge will help you as best they can. A late complaint of rape is not always too late (a little more difficult granted, but not impossible)

Sadly enough, many people get off the hook if there is no solid evidence of rape. They may look at the reactions of the woman when being interviewed by police and lawyers and such, but there is no way of determining whether or not someone was raped with no evidence or witnesses.
If semen is present, it not only proves that sex happened, it can be DNA typed to match a specific person.

If a rape kit is ran, they can tell by the vaginal bruising (or anal bruising in some cases) if it is consensual sex or not...there is a ';sex clock'; standard...if bruising occurs at certain points on the ';clock'; is can show it was consensual or rape.

If no rape kit and after the fact, the perp will be tried via circumstantial evidence...if there are a multitude of other women that were taken advantage of, it could be proven and the perp convicted circumstantially.
The 'authorities' don't. In a trial, witnesses are presented and lawyers will attempt to sway the jury's opinions, but it is the jury that ultimately decides whether or not the victim is telling the truth.

Edit - However, this assumes that the matter even goes to trial. Sadly, these things often don't.
Credibility is a matter for the jury.

is the fact that only 6% of rape cases in the UK end in a conviction proof of a patriarchal (male dominated) society?Is the fact that only 6% of rape cases end in a conviction proof of a patriarchal society?
YES.

And in response to Lulabell's answer... how do you explain that in a case of a woman's word versus a man's, the man doesn't get convicted? Patriarchy.Is the fact that only 6% of rape cases end in a conviction proof of a patriarchal society?
That's ridiculous. It is the idea that everyone (women too) are innocent unless the evidence is beyond a REASONABLE doubt. You are being UNreasonable.

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Phil is right. It isn't that he's believed, it's that you are innocent until proven guilty.

How would you like it if you were accused of a crime and you were jailed just off the other person's word? I didn't think you would like it. That's what this comes down to.

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It is not evidence of it, however the whole world is a patriarchal society and always will be, rightly so.

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i love how instead of people just ANSWERING THE FREAKING QUESTION, they go off on a speil about how the ';greater crime is all the false accusations';

yes, that's bad. but you know what? i'm having a hard time garnering any sympathy for anyone who, when confronted with a problem like a rapist walking free and raping again, just ignores THAT problem and shoves the lesser problem under the lens. disgraceful.

now, to answer your question, as a medical nurse i've seen it time and time again- she takes a shower. she cleans herself up. complete loss of evidence. no ability to prove anything.

and it's not her fault, either. i mean, heck, i'd want a hot freaking shower too.

so it all comes down to evidence.
No
Do we need any more proof?!
It isn't really proof of much at all. Basically what it means is that the majority of rape cases don't have enough evidence to prove guilt beyond any reasonable doubt. The judicial system in the UK is designed to favour the accused by requiring a very high standard of proof in order to result in a conviction. Rape is often a difficult thing to prove to that standard.

Of course this is terribly unjust, but what can really be done about it? You can't simply lower the standard of proof, since if a man is falsely accused of rape (and I don't believe that to be a particularly common scenario, but it does happen) then there would be a good chance of his being punished for a crime he didn't commit.
Until men stand up to men who rape men, women and children, and say rape is wrong and won't be tolerated under any circumstances, rape will continue. Look at how many people are justifying all rape because some are false accusations. So is all murder ok too, since some people are falsely accused of murder? Just why do so many of these people identify with the ones being accused of rape? It makes you wonder just what they are so worried about. Yep, the western world is still very patriarchal. A man's word still counts more than a woman's.
Rape is a hard thing to prove. Since you need proof beyond a reasonable doubt to convict someone of a crime, that's why there are so few convictions.

Dream Fairy- Got a problem with men? I've heard of a woman do every single thing you stated except school shootings. They're not as common, but they happen. Actually, women do abuse kids more often.

Lindie- Yeah we all know a woman's word is more important than a man's and all men should be jailed instantly at the word of a woman.

Some women won't rest on this until we jail every single man accused of rape apparently.

Qwerty has issues too.
I'd be curious to know the difference between the conviction rates for male/female victims. Seems like when there's a male victim, the entire world pays attention and the court system is inclined to pursue all avenues that ';justice is done';

Does the 6% number include male victims, not include male victims? Either way, the differences could be huge.

Knowing this number would certainly contribute to the question of a patriarchal society.
I know for a fact its very hard to prove rape. Part of it is to protect the attacker from false accusations. I'm divided on the issue. There are many cases where the attacker walks away without so much as a slap on the wrist. I know of one such case personally. But, at the same time, we shouldn't make it so easy to convict a person based on accusation that innocent people are sent to jail.

Proving most rapes is often very hard because it comes down to ';he said-she said';. Personally, I don't see how they can change the standards without risking innocent people. While I agree that the percentage of false accusations are not near as high as some of the people on the forum will try to make it, we have to be aware that, yes, there are some people out there who will make false accusations.

Unfortunately, its just a situation that seems to have no remedy.

Some things that have helped, however, is that when on trail they can not bring up your attire during the attack or your past history. Small steps like this is at least helping women gain the courage to come forward after an attack. This way they don't feel like they'll be attacked again while on the stand (which, of course, happens anyway).
I don't know why men think and speak highly of their gender, they are the rapists, murderers, theives, bombers, home-wreckers, unfaithfuls, abusers, even the students who have gone in shootings are all males! God's gift to women? yeah right.

Oh and to answer your question, they may get away with the law of men but the Law of God they will never escape.

Edit: in regards to those questioning whether the case was reported; I know of 3 people who reported their case to the court and let me tell ya, they lost okay? All 3 of them. One of them, molested by a relative when she was only a child testified in court as a teenager and she LOST THE CASE okay? do you get that? The judge did say she believed the child but there was not enough evidence... she was a child.

Querty: ';And I am glad your friend lost. That'll teach her to falsely accuse others of rape!';

You can say this because you know this case inside out right? These hateful comments you spew just makes you a great example of the type of males I speak of.

As for your child abuser comment, maybe the reason for that is due to the fact that the baby daddy just bails, where is the daddy to protect the kiddies?
What is comes down to is a weight measure.. The judges and juries on one hand measure the value of the victim/survivor, a mere woman, and her future value to society, against her perceived damage. The life-long damage that rape causes to the woman, her future spouse(s), and her children is severely under-valued. Even in this forum, men have acknowledged that they think that rape is no more than an unwanted sexual experience and do not even understand the extreme physical pain involved, much less the unending, and unmendable emotional scars.

Against that side, they measure the accused, and man, who is perceived to be far more valuable to society for the contributions that he may make in the future, and weighed against that are the damages that he will endure if convicted, meaning a certain amount of years in jail, and the loss of what he would have contributed to society if he was free.

WIth that in mind, you will only have a conviction if the woman is from a good family, and educated, having a future of great contribution to society, and if the male is of low-breeding, and has little or no education, and is not expeced to contribute much to society. That accounts for the low conviction rate.

The idea that it has anything to do with the testimony at trial, or the guilt or innocence of the accused is a myth. The same thing is true for murder. It is not about guilt or innocence, but about who you murder, and who is accused of murder. If the accused is brought to trial for murdering someone more valuable to society that he/she is, they will probably be found guilty. This helps explain the large percentage of minorities in prison.

This is based on many jurisprudence studies done in the US, but I suspect that the same thing holds true for the UK, since both societies are very class conscious.
I'm not so sure that it is patriarchy that dictates this statistic. Rape cases are generally hard to prove if there is no physical evidence such as spermal (is that a word? LOL) DNA. But I would say that it is still widely believed that a rape victim has somehow done something to deserve what happened.
possibly, but perhaps it also has to do with how many women actually report the rape, because many do not. There is still some way to go in changing attitudes to this heinous crime and as to qwerty who said they are all liars is obviously having a bad day. Also remember that women also serve in the judiciary so its not always men that are at fault.

On one other level if men that do this and who are caught after the first time and are let out and do it again i suggest a mandatory 30 year prison sentence. No argument.
Yes I think it's one piece of evidence that the UK, like other Western countries, continues to maintain patriarchal institutions and attitudes.

(Got some figures and the link below) Bloody disgraceful.

Only about 12,000 are recorded by police (see figures below).

There were 820 convictions recorded for rape in 2005/6, up from 618 in 1997.

It means only 5.7% of reported rapes end in a conviction.

and

The majority of perpetrators are known to the victim

97% of callers to Rape Crisis Lines knew their assailant prior to the assault

During 2001 it is estimated there were 190,000 incidents of serious sexual assault and 47,000 female victims of rape/attempted rape

Home Office figures show that police recorded 12,630 female rapes in 2006-7

Data from Children and Women Abuse Studies Unit and Home Office

Edit: For the numbskulls touting the absurd (and unprovable) lie that 50% of complaints about rape are probably false, even if that were true, it would mean that instead of 47,000 victims of rape, there'd be 23, 000 victims. Of the 23,000 victims, 6,000 would have police record a complaint. Of that 6,000, fewer than 1,000 would be prosecuted.

That. is. still. unacceptable. You. have. no. right. to. expect. women. to. put. up. with. this.

Instead of being apoloogists for rapists why not be real men and actively condemn rape and the rapists amongst you.

';A third of suspects whose victims were under 18 were not investigated, but had histories of violent offending. Among those cases that were crimed, but didn't get past the police investigation stage, were some with known histories of offending who were not prosecuted, ';in the public interest';.';

(link below)

- and to people saying these are feminist figures they're not - they're data collected by the Home Office and official police records - but you know, thumbs down by all means - gotta do whatever you can to protect that rape mentality.

Creeps. I'm so angry at the appalling stupidity and lack of concern that I see on this board that I could barf.

(See link below - there is evidence in over 80% of cases).

Edit: and for people who follow Farrel like uncritical, mindless sheep; he has no credibility, is a supporter of incest and child molestation and as such is no authority whatsoever re: any sort of rape or molestation issue. (link on him and his demented ramblings - xyonline - is below).
yes.

all a man has to do to ';prove'; he didn't rape a woman is say ';yeah, I had sex with her'; and he walks. the evidence of sperm is useless, hey of course there would be sperm, he said he had sex with her. Bruises fade and could have come from anywhere. (although I think I'd remember getting whacked hard enough in the thigh to cause a bruise) in he said she said, hell, it's always her that's lying.
In Canada the victim serves as evidence. Nobody represents her and to actually go through with a trial is revictimizing her and forcing her to relive the trauma again and again. There is very little chance of any type of restitution fo the suffering, lost wages, lost life and oftentimes post traumatic stress syndrome.

Many men live in a fantasy land of self deception as individuals. Most pretend. And they insist that the women around them pretend, that they are the white knights and that the sexist men are characters they have seen in bars or heard at construction sites but certainly are not like themselves. Some openly attack feminists by claiming that they too have counted the wounded and named the attackers and that we feeble minded women have simply failed to see reality. They are here to assure us that with sober second thought we will see that all is well with the world and that we need only draw and quarter those five bad guys.
Not necessarily!! It could be proof that the woman was lying or that the woman did give the man some hint that it was ok to do it. I think that it's discriminatory to assume that it is ';proof';.
';A patriarchal society';?

All societies are patriarchal.

What exactly do you compare this too?

A patriarchal society gave us courts that allow us to even try these accused rapists. Also, we don't put people in prison unless a crime can be proven. Simply accusing someone of rape is not enough to lock them up.
Realy??...is that true??... that's a shame.

But to confirm if is a sexism problem u have to know first of all, what are the causes of the low rate on condems... maybe is a corruption problem.
I think its proof that individuals and society in general have a very vague and subjective understanding of what constitutes ';rape';

Edit- I completely agree dream fairy, why would they need something like evidence to convict some one of a crime?
lol - ofcourse not.

Its simply due to the fact that most rape cases come down to the womens word against the man.

They can't convict someone if there is a shadow of a doubt that they might be innocent.

Its not enough to prove they had sex, they have to prove that she said no and that he forced himself onto her.

Unless they had a tape recorder playing - how do you suggest they prove that?
Wow - that ain't good.

I didn't prosecute due to the humiliation factor. I didn't want to rehash the gory details in open court, or be cross-examined to the point where I'm feeling worse about what happened and blaming myself.

Pretty sad...

Found this for your reading pleasure...

http://www.d.umn.edu/cla/faculty/jhamlin鈥?/a>
I'd think it was more likely that only 6% prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a rape occurred and the suspect perpetuated it.

Considering how many false claims of rape are filed each year, it is amazing that there are any convictions at all.

What *IS* a patriarchal society? In my 60+ years, I can't find it and have never seen it. Is this another of the myths like the ';wage-gap';? Am I supposed to benefit from being male? I haven't, in fact, it's been a detriment in many cases like divorces, custody, jobs and promotions.
No, the fact that there is such a crime as rape disproves your assertion. If you add to that, the fact that most of the acts these days coming under the definition of rape, aren't what most rational people would regard as worthy of the name. Then we have false allegations. Figures show, that if you reduce the crime stats. to include only those acts which used to be regarded as rape, false allegations, and those claims where there doesn't seem to be a case to answer, they haven't risen at all.

Let me fire one back. There has always been considerably more male prisoners than female prisoners. How can men, therefore, have framed the law to suit their own purposes? It is clear that men have a much harder time than women in staying inside the laws of the land, as you would have it, framed by men themselves.

You have to remember, if you are a reasonable person that is, that men have a much stronger sex drive than women and have been primed by nature to be the chasers. So, don't expect to stop it once intercourse has commenced, because the right time to do this is before.
That depends; Is the fact that at least 50% of all rape complaints are *provably* false evidence that women are huge liars ?

The law and courts are supposed to convict when there is sufficient evidence of a crime having been committed in the first place, and evidence that one particular person committed it.

Theres an old saying about Justice: It is better that ten guilty people go free than one innocent person goes to jail.

Warren Farrell, in his book The Myth of Male Power (1993, p.322), cites an Air Force study that investigated 556 charges of rape by servicewomen. In that investigation, 27% ADMITTED that their accusations had been false either before or after being confronted with lie detector tests.

Farrell cites ';False Allegations,'; Forensic Science Digest, V. 11, no. 4, Dec. 1985, p. 64, by Charles P. McDowell. Farrell says the Digest is a publication of the Air Force Office of Special Investigations in D.C.

Also, Kanin, E.J., (1994) ';False Rape Accusations';, Archives of Sexual Behavior, V23, P81-92, Kanin finds that 41% of reported rapes were outright fabrications, by admission of the woman.

Note that in both studies, you get high numbers just from recantations by the women, it is logical to presume that not all the false claimants recanted, so the percentage of false claims MUST be higher than the 27% and 41% figures.

Note, as well, that the law rarely sanctions false claimants, thus making further false claims all the more likely.

See also the Duke Lacrosse team rape case, which did a LOT of damage to innocent men, yet resulted in only one day in jail for the rogue prosecutor, and none for the false claimant. Let us know when the conviction rate of false claimants comes UP to 6%...
No, we live in a patriarchal society but that statistic doesn't prove anything.
Sources, because is this 6% of all reported rape to the police, or just an estimate to include the unreported cases.

That is my problem with feminism, using fake, false or misleading stats to back up an agruement.
I'm very skeptical of any stats relating to female victim-hood in the west.

I'd hope the figure is a lot higher than 6%.

Anyway, if there really was a patricarchal conspiricy to rape women we would just build big factorys to house automated rape production lines instead of making the washing machines and other appliences that make your life easier.
False allegations of rape by women against men is an even bigger problem.

False Rape Accusations May Be More Common Than Thought

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,1940鈥?/a>

An alarming national trend: False Rape Allegations

http://www.anandaanswers.com/pages/naaFa鈥?/a>

';With the cooperation of the police agency of a small metropolitan community, 45 consecutive, disposed, false rape allegations covering a 9 year period were studied. False rape allegations constitute 41% of the total forcible rape cases (109) reported during this period.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/topics/fore鈥?/a>

';One bit of information that we have is we do somewhere have an estimate by I guess the FBI that in 30 percent of the cases where they now do DNA testing there is an exclusion, and the question is before there was DNA testing how many of those cases would have gone to trial with the suspect.';

Convicted by Juries, Exonerated by Science: Case Studies.

in the Use of DNA Evidence to Establish Innocence After

Trial

http://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles/dnaevid.tx鈥?/a>

Tuesday, August 24, 2010

In criminal cases?can prosecutor be from private counsel or the state just appoint them?

How to remove paper stuff inside plastic pensil cases?

What do you think about the clear plastic cases for the Motorola Razr v3?

Do you think doctors who perform surgery in cases that appear to be hopeless ok?

In cases of rape how do they determine if the victim is lying or not?

What is the meaning of ';about' in these cases?

Is the fact that only 6% of rape cases end in a conviction proof of a patriarchal society?

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